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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
19 June 2008 17:11 (UK time)

Alright, so as you may have heard, I'm starting a mod. However, I'm going to be away for the next month of so (summer holidays!), so it won't be anywhere near done for a while, but I'm uploading what I've got done so far here as a kind of playable demo. Enjoy!


-
James moved this file to Meteor Mods and added this link...
http://www.meteormods.com/downloads/meteor2/mods/JTF2%20mod%20demo.zip

Edited: 16 August 2008 00:33


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
19 June 2008 18:06 (UK time)

That's great. I will download it.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
20 June 2008 13:36 (UK time)

Comments, suggestions, problems are welcome.

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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
20 June 2008 15:54 (UK time)

Im Going To A Holiday Cruise! When I Come Back Ill Download This! Cya!
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
30 August 2008 04:39 (UK time)

Alright, this mod is login to create posts in this thread.

40oz
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 03 January 2004
Posts: 1799
30 August 2008 04:40 (UK time)

Upload it to meteormods.com!
*Papercut
Pro-Murder.
Legalize Crime.


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
30 August 2008 04:51 (UK time)

Wow...that was a fast response. I e-mailed it to James like it says on Meteormods, hopefully it'll be up there soon.

Edit: Of course, I could always attach it here, if that method isn't fast enough....:)

Edited: 30 August 2008 04:52


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40oz
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 03 January 2004
Posts: 1799
30 August 2008 04:59 (UK time)

The IRC chatroom's 'jbserver_bot' notifies the people in it of any posts. You should get in there sometime :)
*Papercut
Pro-Murder.
Legalize Crime.


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
30 August 2008 06:53 (UK time)

I will try your mod when I will be able to because I have some work to do first.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
30 August 2008 15:10 (UK time)

Okay, it's on Meteormods now.

http://www.meteormods.com/File_Info.asp?FileId=5635

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nyasudah
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 06 February 2005
Posts: 832
30 August 2008 20:03 (UK time)

its quite hard, mostly because of the tight time limits
anyway its great
nyasudah / masuda / mp / PetiX / PtX


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James Bunting
Joined: 17 September 2003
Posts: 1308
30 August 2008 20:13 (UK time)

I agree its hard but very good. Loads of nice scripting and 20 mils are fun.

Now why did I never think of making turrets vehicles.

<lol>race.map</lol>

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nyasudah
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 06 February 2005
Posts: 832
30 August 2008 20:16 (UK time)

Yay race.map.. its really much fun, it took me about half hour to won the race :choc(^^,)
nyasudah / masuda / mp / PetiX / PtX


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
30 August 2008 20:42 (UK time)

Thanks for the good reviews!:D

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arezey

Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 1599
30 August 2008 20:44 (UK time)

nicefive wrote:
Now why did I never think of making turrets vehicles.


What about the uber cannon? :p

And yeah this mod's great. Sure it is really hard but I like it. Great weapons you got there, though maybe there's a little too much cinematic in the start? Hmm... speaking of cinematics.....



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James Bunting
Joined: 17 September 2003
Posts: 1308
30 August 2008 21:25 (UK time)

Oh, I kinda forgot about that.

But its nice idea to have a "sit on" smaller general use turret.

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40oz
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 03 January 2004
Posts: 1799
31 August 2008 02:29 (UK time)

I didnt like it.

New Objects? Awesome.
New Weapons? Awesome.
New Music? Awesome.
New Maps? Awesome.
Good Scripts? Awesome.
Traditional M2 Gameplay? BAD.

I dunno what it is about M2, but it has to be one of the least fun games I had ever played, and the fact that it keeps true original gameplay really turned me off. But that's just how I am though. I dont know if you had noticed, but I had never made a mod that preserved the original game's gameplay. Sorry I have to say this, especially to both you and James, (Since he designed the objects and weapons initially) but if Meteor and Meteor 2 didn't have editors that make it simple to make a TC, I would not be posting on these forums right now.

I hate to criticize your mod based on original M2 elements, and because I do that I should also remind you that I do admire the time and effort you put into making this mod. But because of how frustrating it is to play M2 the way it already is, I would never make a mod that preserves it. ~X(
*Papercut
Pro-Murder.
Legalize Crime.


Edited: 31 August 2008 02:32


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
31 August 2008 03:58 (UK time)

Fair enough. Personally, I think M2 is a pretty good game, but you're right, the editors make it much better.

Edit: Exactly what original M2 elements don't you like? Just curious.

Edited: 31 August 2008 03:59


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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
31 August 2008 13:48 (UK time)

I havent yet finished the mod, but it was all good, but i didn't like it! The time-expiring is annoying and stresses alot! Also the hostage thing is annoying because u lose if 1 dies! And, the sniper rifle is an AWM (Arctic Warfare Magnum)! :|
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
31 August 2008 15:59 (UK time)

Yeah, I suppose. If there was a way to set it so that you would lose after, say, three hostages were killed I would have done that...Actually I think I just figured out a way to do it. ****. Too late now, unless I upload a complete set of new script files and some other stuff...

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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
31 August 2008 16:11 (UK time)

Great mod, Canuck! I like the weapons, sprites and everything.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
31 August 2008 17:44 (UK time)

Thanks, Dark Rain.:)

Here's a patch to extend the time limits and give you a bit of leeway with the hostages. With this, you can have anywhere between two and six hostages killed before you fail (depending on the total number of hostages in the mission).

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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
01 September 2008 17:42 (UK time)

The time limits are more than long enough, IMO.


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
05 September 2008 23:16 (UK time)

Canuck, I found a critical script bug in the game which makes you not being able to complete ASub1.map.

To fix it, simply delete the line "export OnObjectDie_58", which makes the script compilation fail because this function is not defined.

I will upload the good script file here. Maybe include it in a second patch.


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
09 September 2008 02:00 (UK time)

Thanks, Mrazerty, I've edited the upload to fix this bug.

Geez, you can tell everybody has to go back to school...the forums are soooooooo dead.

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40oz
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Joined: 03 January 2004
Posts: 1799
09 September 2008 03:31 (UK time)

Canuck wrote:
Edit: Exactly what original M2 elements don't you like? Just curious.


Well there is a heavy imbalance of proportions. That's a weird way to put it, but the gameplay is simply not in the players favor.

The only advantage the player has against the enemy AI is that it is able to hold and switch between many different weapons. Essentially everything else has stronger or equal strengths against the player. All the enemies use the same weapons as the player, which essentially is pretty realistic, however it can make lone wolf missions such as the ones in your mod pretty much impossible.

In almost every good game, if the player has to fight a ton of enemies, he needs an edge over them. His weapons need to shoot faster, more accurate, bigger clip size, more damage, extra health, SOMETHING. The player is pretty much equal to his opponents except having about twice as much health. Fighting guarding enemies is simple since they take a while to turn around, however guys that are roaming are fast and extremely alert of their surroundings, and can evidently use the same weapons you do, except much better, getting direct shots (If the spray factor permits) at the very peak of its firing range. I simply cannot fight the enemies in M2 without them doing some amount of damage on me first. I constantly have to rely on maps being loaded with medikits in each room in order to survive.

The way M2 expects you to have to kill many different enemies in large groups without giving you any sort of an advantage against them besides pure inconsistent luck is what makes the game not fun. This the explanation I have for making my mods use bullets as projectiles you can dodge. While it may be a little unrealistic, the way enemies in Meteor sort of stand in the way of projectiles making no motion to avoid them makes them less stressful to fight, since you can see the bullets coming in your direction and you make the effort to escape their line of fire. The enemies not having the ability to do that gives the player the edge, and therefore it's more fun to play since you can kill many enemies without getting massacred everytime you fight them, unless you are absolutely lazy and make no effort to survive.

I've played many first person shooters and other various games. Things that are important in them is that the player should be able to learn from his mistakes. If the player can learn to avoid making those mistakes, he should be rewarded. i.e. If bullets are coming your way, and you don't move, you will almost indifinitely die or become severely injured. Learning to stride out of the way of incoming bullets rewards you by not losing any health in the battle, and thus being able to continue playing the game. Another reward is watching your opponent die. Seeing your opponent fall to the ground in a splash of blood is an excellent way of rewarding the player, especially if the enemy is really frustrating to fight, and the player had grown to hate that certain enemy.

M2 doesn't really offer much of this. Enemies certainly drop dead on the floor after you kill them, but its more of a releif than a reward. I have yet to come up with a working strategy for killing enemies in M2 besides rustling up some troops and getting them to fight battles for me. (BORING). I still get shot every single time i come in contact with a pistol trooper. There may have been one or two times where i was able to kill them without taking a single shot, this is likely due to extreme luck. And relying strictly on like is not a plausible strategy for any game. Meteor 2 really needs to be redesigned to have fair battles.


*Papercut
Pro-Murder.
Legalize Crime.


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
09 September 2008 07:18 (UK time)

I'll have to agree with Papercut on that one.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


Edited: 09 September 2008 07:19


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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
09 September 2008 16:07 (UK time)

Canuck wrote:
Thanks, Mrazerty, I've edited the upload to fix this bug.

Geez, you can tell everybody has to go back to school...the forums are soooooooo dead.


Almost ALL forums I'm a member of are dead =)
Pretty logic, too.



@Papercut
Yeah that's absolutely right. That's why it's a pain if you play on a difficulty higher than normal, because it's practically impossible to damage an enemy before he damages you. OR you have to be faster than your CPU, which is mostly not the case. =)

That's why it's much more fun on Easy or Very Easy. That DOES give you a fair advantage.

We should definatly make a mod wherein enemies have weaker guns, slower movement, etc...


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


Edited: 09 September 2008 16:14


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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
10 September 2008 13:10 (UK time)


Yeah that's absolutely right. That's why it's a pain if you play on a difficulty higher than normal, because it's practically impossible to damage an enemy before he damages you. OR you have to be faster than your CPU, which is mostly not the case. =)

That's why it's much more fun on Easy or Very Easy. That DOES give you a fair advantage.

We should definatly make a mod wherein enemies have weaker guns, slower movement, etc...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, thats why we should be amazed of Mrazerty when he won the game on Very Hard! :)
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


Edited: 10 September 2008 13:11


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
10 September 2008 14:46 (UK time)

Naval War wrote:

Yeah that's absolutely right. That's why it's a pain if you play on a difficulty higher than normal, because it's practically impossible to damage an enemy before he damages you. OR you have to be faster than your CPU, which is mostly not the case. =)

That's why it's much more fun on Easy or Very Easy. That DOES give you a fair advantage.

We should definatly make a mod wherein enemies have weaker guns, slower movement, etc...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, thats why we should be amazed of Mrazerty when he won the game on Very Hard! :)


Absolutely. ;)
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
10 September 2008 15:04 (UK time)

@Naval War

Hehe, thanks ^_^
I DID use cowardish glitches and a lot of quicksaves though, otherwise it would be completely insane =P


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


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Canuck

Joined: 31 August 2007
Posts: 419
11 September 2008 03:47 (UK time)

Well, it's pretty cool anyway, I've got to use quicksaves and whatnot on normal.

And it wouldn't be too hard to make a mod of M2 that was easier. Just make a set of weapons for the player and a set for the enemies, with the players' being much stronger. Though, what I'd really like to see would be a good allied AI with better command and control for the player (Ash is a colonel, after all). Similar to that in games like Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six, where you also have to fight your way through vast quantities of bad guys, but have useful teammates who shoot at the same range as the enemies and are just as tough as the player, and whom you can order to open doors, clear rooms, move, and such, without them getting stuck or anything. I guess this would be really hard to program, but it would be cool.

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