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40oz
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 03 January 2004
Posts: 1799
27 January 2007 04:11 (UK time)

It really took me a lot of time and thought about this, but I'd like to get this off my chest. This how I've been differentiating the contrast between good games and bad games. All the good games that I've played met all these expectations and performed them perfectly. If anyone else would like to list what they prefer in good games then do so. This is listed in order of my opinion in importance and overall significance.

PLAYABILITY - This is a vague topic, because it includes so much. Basically what playability is in my opinion, is that there should always be a steady flow of gameplay. I should always be able to notice the progress I am making. (This can be acheived in so many ways, like simply ending the level and jumping into the next, or even just saying ''Well done!'' every time you do something right) Long key hunts and backtracking contricts the flow of gameplay. Good games are constantly making progress as you go through without any impossible confusing puzzles, just basic ones that are easy to catch on to. Basically, I should always be doing something fun in the game. I can almost never get sick of fighting enemies so long as I am provided the resources to do it. If I have to fight barrages of enemies without the ammo and health thrown at me from time to time, it becomes more frustrating than fun. Progress should not be hard to make. It can be challenging, but at least be understandable. All conflicts should have possible solutions, even if the solution is to ignore the obstacle and find another route. The possible solutions should not be too impossible to find, they should be openly provided to you enough so you dont need a magnifying glass or a guide to find it, but not so easy that you dont even need to try. Thats pretty much how playability goes.

PHYSICS - It wasnt until I played Half-Life that I realised how much I am impressed with how the physics engine operates. The more closely objects behave like they would in real life, the more I am impressed. I prefer ragdolls over animations because they are simply more lifelike. I never thought this would be such an important factor, but there was never a game I played that had an amazing physics engine but was still bad.

AUDIO - It wasnt until I got into modding that I realised how important this is. Music has got to fit with the game and the situation that is happening. Halo pulls this off perfectly. Everything has to make a proper sound. The more things that are making its proper sounds, the more I am impressed. I use a lot of loop soundfx in my mods for this reason. Other situations in games, where some sounds can actually add to the fun of a game. Like if there was a sword fighting game, and everytime you went to fight someone, and your strongest sword sounded like "ting. ting. ting." when you attacked people with it. And when yor enemies died, they just go "umph" and fall down on their knees. You really dont feel powerful. But if you sword sound like "<<SWOOSSH>> CLASH!!!" when you hit people, and when they died theyd go "BLEAAARRGH!!!", it would make your fight seem more intense and efficient. I also dont like the game to ever have moments where it is dead silent. Reality has too much sound to have any area not produce any sounds. The balance of sounds has to work right too. Guns are ultimately much louder than things like wind, a door opening, or bulletcases falling. However, when a gun is not firing, you should be able to clearly hear wind, opening doors, and bulletcases, etc. Important factor.

GRAPHICS - It wasnt until earlier this year that I realised how unimportant this is. At earlier ages, I would think, "WOW that game looks so realistic I have to have it!". This is not the case. As much as high quality graphics are impressive, they serve very little purpose in making a good game. It helps, but very little. I still play doom to this day. Dooms enemies are shown by sprites with 8 different perspective angles. I still prefer those sprites, even if they are not realistic, it is good enough for me. The more graphics become more and more detailed, the less imagination is required to enjoy the game. Which I believe is possibly making the video gaming world dumber. Now a game has to at least produce an image that still remotely looks like the object its supposed to represent. (like Atari's 8 pixel stick figures - that easily represent people) But if it looks too impressive and nails down every aspect of detail, then the game does all the imagining for you. A real shame really. Graphics still need to be there, but they dont have to be that great.

That's all I've got for important game features.
*Papercut
Pro-Murder.
Legalize Crime.


Edited: 27 January 2007 04:21


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VR_Rat

Joined: 20 January 2006
Posts: 396
27 January 2007 12:48 (UK time)

I've thought a little about this topic also.

The playibility is the biggest killer in my opion. If you have a game that isn't very playible then it will lose a lot of players real fast.

I have only played half-life 2 a little, but even i see how it can improve the game. I like how if you run out of ammo and you have the gravity gun you can improvise weapons.

The audio is like iceing on a cake. It's not much of a cake without good frosting. I sometimes jugde the power of a weapon by its sound.

True, the graphics aren't the biggest thing to worry about. Long ago when i played megazuex (a game creator that is best used on win 95 comps) someone made a game with really cheszy graphics, yet it was one of the best games i ever played. The graphics can make a huge difference to some people, but if there is a good story then like you said the doom graphics would work perfectly.

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fuzinavl
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Joined: 06 October 2004
Posts: 287
28 January 2007 03:47 (UK time)

I play stuff. I note what I like and what I hate. I could go on for pages, but no details for now.

GRAPHICS - Wow papercut, that's scary. You somehow stole the "graphics" lecture I've given to others. I do enjoy good animations though, like in the original Prince of Persia (dos). Little things like head turning add a bit too. High resolution models and textures tend to make everything else look crappy. The important thing is to keep a consistent detail level and art style.
Favorite 2d detail level: Super Nintendo
Favorite 3d art style: Zelda: Windwaker, Lego Star Wars II

TEXT - it's easy to create and quite powerful. Grossly underused. I don't want paragraphs, but entertain me!
"Die table!!" -- Dink Smallwood

AUDIO - I agree with papercut. Personal preference: choose fun over realism.

PHYSICS - I agree with papercut. Physics in fun fun fun. Elastics, ropes, low friction surfaces, acceleration, inertia, gravity, explosions, "weighted" collisions, springs, ... Personal preference: choose fun over realism. Sometimes physics in gameplay has a steep learning curve which makes gameplay difficult/annoying.

CUSTOMIZATION - I like it, but in most games, there is great inequality between ability combinations.
Choosing unit types (hockey for NES) - yay
Choosing weapons & character looks (C-dogs) - yay
Designing the shape of your starcraft (AstroBattle) - Sadly ships handle badly

MULTIPLAYER - same computer, please. Internet stuff is antisocial. Why not combine both?

STUFF THAT ANNOYS ME.
1. player paralysis / slowdown. Damage me, but NEVER slow me down. Ok for baddies.
2. MMOGs - My numbers are bigger! Gameplay lacks variety and skill. Graphics are good, but get old quickly.
3. Gradius powerup system - You lost everything, now you can't beat the game.
4. Does Megaman's gun-arm explode if it's not horizontal?
5. Lego star Wars II - Forget the Sith plot, let's spend days destroying property for little coins!

Examples of nigh perfect games:
Zelda: A link to the past - The perfect adventure & powerup formula
Radiant Silvergun / ikaruga - no powerups, just gameplay
Star castle
Tetris
Super Smash t.v. - too difficult, but this game = sweat!

Papercut- What stuff have you done and what are you working on? We seem to have similar design philosophies.

Edited: 28 January 2007 04:04


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me_mantis

Joined: 26 September 2003
Posts: 1152
28 January 2007 19:00 (UK time)

Argh! I'll post!

Playability
I play games that involve strategy that allows a player to gain an advantage. Meteor 2 allows you to use different weapons to clear out different baddies(use of correct weapons is clever). I enjy games that cater to a wide variety of tactics, and allow players with the best strategy to win, even if they aren't the best button pusher ever. I also like suprises/hidden levels, and randomly spawning powerups.

Physics
Physics are cool, and should be implemented in a way that makes them valuable to the strategy of the game. Shooting someone off a cliff would be very cool. My favorite trick is detonating a bridge in ra2 and watching all the tanks on it fall into the water (not my tanks btw)

Audio
Its slightly important, and can bring the game out of the computer, but good audio doesn't always fix bad gameplay.

Graphics
In 10 years, games will look as good as movies, and your computer will render them at cinematic quality. However, If they aren't as fun as Red Alert 1, I won't play them. =P
Yes, I think graphics are cool, but graphics are the last thing I care about in a game.

Multiplayer
Internet/LAN is an absolute must! Play on 1 computer is cool though, but MP makes it cooler. I live to play LAN games with my bros with all our computer right next to eachother, thus we can talk and smack eathother. I don't think internet is antisocial, and I've met lots of cool people online. Last week, I asked about the quality of moss in washington to a player I played with, and he said it was top notch. Thus intertet is way cool.

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VR_Rat

Joined: 20 January 2006
Posts: 396
29 January 2007 00:19 (UK time)

No papercut, megaman's gun won't explode, the energy ball doesn't have enough velocity to launch up. it will fall and hurt megaman.

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40oz
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Joined: 03 January 2004
Posts: 1799
31 January 2007 01:17 (UK time)

@VR_Rat - I like the example of the gravity gun acting as an improvising weapon because it relates to what I said in playability, I can kill baddies all day long, as long as I am provided the resources to do it. As long as there is a gravity gun, and an environment at your disposal, You always have resources to work with.

I judge the power of weapons by their sound too. Sometimes I prefer to use the pistol in CRATER instead of the Guardian Rifle, because it sounds cooler, even though they both use the same ammo and do the same damage.

I also like that graphics point too. Glad we're thinking the same way.

@fuzinavl - Believe it or not, I am not working on any games whatsoever. All these observations that I came up with are from playing games for so many years, comparing them with games I liked and games I didnt, and modding for my own personal preference.

I forgot to mention good animations, because choppy animations, or the simple absence of animation bothers me. (If he's going to open a door, he has to look like he's opening a door.)

I love Super Nintendo too, because it was basically not much different than the quality of other systems, but it had a huge color pallete, and color is more necessary than the graphics.

Text is good to, but often replaced with audible speech, which in a sense does the same for me. Reading is a little more logical to me though.

Customization is fantastic. Simply being able to pick the color of your character can work as a factor in customization. Inequality is frustration though. Games like Soldat and Starcraft come close to being perfectly equal, but there are certain things that can ultimately be better than others. Rock Paper Scissors is the best working example of this. But the lack of possibilities is what makes the game more boring. Hockey for NES is the best classic game in the world in terms of equality, with its ability to organize a team with 3 classes of characters.

Multiplayer isn't a total necessity, depending on what type of game it is. A game like Doom or Tetris is pretty fun just to play alone. However there are other games that need someone to play with to have fun. Like MMORPGs.

I agree with all the things that annoy you especially gradius powerup thing. Doom is guilty for this. If I am playing through a really hard megawad, and get ffar through the game with all my needed weapons (SSG, Chaingun, Rocketlauncher, Plasma Gun), and I die, and lose them all except the pistol, I dont even try. I literally quit right there and play a different game. I have to remember to save frequently to avoid that.

@me_mantis - All is agreed in terms of Playability.

For physics, making physics things required for completing the game isnt totally necessary. but I cant say its not fun.

In terms of Audio, you are absolutely right. Soundfx and Music doesnt make a crappy game good. It only makes a good game better.

I enjoy online play. I cant say it is antisocial either, especially with chat and microphones to bring the experience together. However I do feel that there will always be more attention to Single Player situations, because its like the gamemmakers create the experience. In multiplayer, its the players that create the expereince. Multiplayer is good at producing something new everytime, but single player is better at creating a high quality experience.

@All - I'd like to put emphasis on determining your progress. M2 is super guilty for this. Everytime I come in contact with a generic pistol soldier, I get shot 2 or 3 times, every single one I come in contact with. That drives me crazy. Even though theyre bullets do little damage, and it is still possible to get through the level, I still manage to get shot. And that annoys me. I like games better when the enemies can damage you a lot, but your human error is responsible for it. Like CRATER, if you cant dodge bullets, your dead. but if you can, you get through the game perfectly. M2 makes you lose small amounts of health no matter what. I feel as though I am not responsible for maintaining my health. Only the game itself is.

*Papercut
Pro-Murder.
Legalize Crime.


Edited: 31 January 2007 01:19


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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
20 May 2008 12:17 (UK time)

I Think... Brutal Damage,Total Annihilation And Mass Destruction Are The Best In Games! So Thats Why Jets n' Guns Is A Cool Game And Its Graphics! Half Life 2 Rocks With Its Physics But Crysis, That Game Owns All Games!! But Still I Propably Play More Classic Games Like Tetris Than The Newest Games Like Crysis! EDIT: I Know This Is An Old Post But... I Dont Wanna Abandon These! I Like Posts!
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


Edited: 20 May 2008 12:22


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
20 May 2008 14:58 (UK time)

According to me the most important thing that one game must definitely have is the gameplay. It's also great when the game has unique gameplay.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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1up

Joined: 25 January 2007
Posts: 153
20 May 2008 20:31 (UK time)

yes, kinda like Bioshock and stuff, because Bioshock is kinda unique...make armor piercing rounds, fight these giant things that look clumsy but could kill you easily, etc...gameplay ftw!
I play legend of zelda because each signature boss has a different strategy to defeat it. I rank strategy right after gameplay, even tho it might be a part of gameplay(it stands out, so why not?).
"...And with his fight money, he bought two of each animal on earth, then he herded them onto a boat, where he beat the crap out of every single one!*bangs grenades together*" -Team Fortress 2 Soldier
Headshot! Double Kill! Triple Kill! Overkill! killtacular! Killtastrophe! Killimanjaro! Killprocalypse!... Kil-Killionaire?! What happened to kill#9?!
"Oh shit, hes got THE HALO 1 PISTOL! RUUUUUUN!"
"Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet." -Red Sniper


Edited: 20 May 2008 20:36


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
20 May 2008 21:20 (UK time)

Thief has a unique gameplay too. It is my favourite game.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
21 May 2008 12:58 (UK time)

Playability:
Essential. A game is meant to PLAY, so what is a game when it's not... a game? Get what I mean?

Physics:
Depends on what game you're playing. I really like physics in sloppy shooters (which is my fav type of game). Physics create more havoc and also without them, the game may get a little repeatitive(sorry if I spelled that wrong). For example, that's why I like Max Payne 2 more than 1.

Audio:
Not essential, but really: What's more fun than playing a good FPS in a darkened room with surround sound? Hearing stuff from a realistic perspecive also creates more tension. Suggestion: Playing Doom 3 like this is awesome! Good sound is not essential for a good game, but it certainly does take a part.

Graphics:
Definitely NOT important. Especially if you know that a lot of game creators give more attention to grafix than gameplay. Sometimes, an extremely pixelised game is even more fun than a game with good graphics. That's my opinion, at least. Did you know I still play those games that don't even have real graphics? Where your character is a '@' and a monster is a 'M', for example(Know what I'm talking about? Yep, that's right! Roguelikes!). For me it's like this: the better the graphics, the badder the game. Sounds weird but it's true. =)


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


Edited: 21 May 2008 12:59


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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
21 May 2008 18:35 (UK time)

I Cant Believe It!
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
21 May 2008 19:09 (UK time)

I don't care about the graphics either.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


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Dthdealer

Joined: 10 March 2007
Posts: 476
22 May 2008 10:39 (UK time)

I believe that physics are the biggest factor of gameplay. I can just spend hours throwing objects around, stacking them, making contraptions etc. Unfortunately the closest I have ever gotten to this is HL2 demo and MagicPen.

Second most important aspect of a game is modifiability. I hate games that are Linear and strictly what the creators thought up. Even better is a modification community for the game, like we have here.

The third most important aspect of a game to me is sound. A dark room without music is the equivalent of wearing eye-patches and earplugs. A game without you being able to hear soldiers shooting at you or running at you is like tieing and gagging yourself to a chair.
Games without dialogue are stupid in my opinion. In fact I prefer text dialogues but sound dialogues during cinematics.

Graphics are not a huge factor for me, but I do like having high-polygon counts and high-res textures. Don't bother with water-effects unless you are an RTS or a top-view RPG.

Diversity is another aspect. If a boss is killed one way, why the heck should other bosses be killed the same way? The most annoying anti-diversity drug is forced usage of weapons and techniques. Some games have each section only have ammo for a specific weapon, or only allow you to do one thing like climb 20 or so walls, only to be annihilated by something ontop.

Finally I have to add explosive barrels. No game, of any genre, is complete without explosive barrels. Yes I'm talking about you M2, c4 just doesn't cut it.

P.S.Total Annihilation rocks!
Also known as Veyrdite
My website: http://halestrom.net/darksleep@Occasionally you may meet me when you sleep. In the darkest corners of your dreams, where your phone stops working and you don't know what to do. I'll be there; telling you that I don't support your device.

"Can't you just fix-"
NO! I told you when you bought this, when it goes wrong I can't fix it. It's filled with glue. The Greek goddess of glue Araldities herself would be impressed with this.

Please stop asking me for technical support during your dreams. Can't we just tour some surreal landscapes instead?

"How do I do that?"

Count your fingers. Keep trying. Make sure there's ten.

Then summon me. I am large and covered in wires. Clouds of baking soda pour into your world and a slightly weak yellowy glow appears from the LED strips behind me.

If you can see this message then you're already part of the way there. Keep all your styles disabled and you might see the dream within.

"But there's so much javascript everywhere! I can't see you. Help! I've forgotten to count my fingers! Where do I find them?"

The LED strip behind me pops and goes out. Dark spots appear in the centre of each light. I lift my finger to my lips. The smell of tantalum capacitors fills the air.

Ssh. Don't worry about that. Behind those frameworks there's another person sleeping.

Some day the javascript will sleep too.


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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
22 May 2008 12:38 (UK time)

Someone Agrees!
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


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nyasudah
 Official Sponsor

Joined: 06 February 2005
Posts: 832
22 May 2008 15:32 (UK time)

The most important things for me in a game are story and interactivity.
nyasudah / masuda / mp / PetiX / PtX


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Spy

Joined: 05 October 2007
Posts: 1031
23 May 2008 13:29 (UK time)

So Half Life 2 Is A Master Game!
I was known as Naval War before.
I love and mod Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
Also an active osu! player: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3971179


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1up

Joined: 25 January 2007
Posts: 153
27 May 2008 03:16 (UK time)

Agreed that graphics arent very important, but graphics is the icing that finishes off the cake. Gameplay is the base, the STORYLINE(which ppl decided to leave out) is the stuffing between the layers, the upper layers of the cake is the audio, the physics is the fruit on top of the cake, and if you went that far, might as well go the extra mile for good graphics, if you get the picture. See, if a game came out recently, and if it was killer in everything else, just as well have a smooth finish.
"...And with his fight money, he bought two of each animal on earth, then he herded them onto a boat, where he beat the crap out of every single one!*bangs grenades together*" -Team Fortress 2 Soldier
Headshot! Double Kill! Triple Kill! Overkill! killtacular! Killtastrophe! Killimanjaro! Killprocalypse!... Kil-Killionaire?! What happened to kill#9?!
"Oh shit, hes got THE HALO 1 PISTOL! RUUUUUUN!"
"Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet." -Red Sniper


Edited: 27 May 2008 03:19


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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
27 May 2008 20:30 (UK time)

Well, if you compare everything with cake, I'd really want a Meteor 3 cake for my birthday ^_^


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
27 May 2008 20:37 (UK time)

I also want Meteor 3 cake for my birthday =)
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


Edited: 27 May 2008 20:38


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Janne

Joined: 05 January 2007
Posts: 57
28 May 2008 15:05 (UK time)

Have you heard about Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines? I think its a great game. http://www.gamespot.com/914819

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DarkRain

Joined: 01 March 2007
Posts: 1193
28 May 2008 16:34 (UK time)

I haven't heard about it. But the game looks interesting.
The Dark Age is upon us! Quake 2 mapmaker.


Edited: 28 May 2008 16:35


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ParaSait

Joined: 26 June 2007
Posts: 1478
31 May 2008 10:26 (UK time)

Everyone in school talks about that game. But it doesn't sound that interesting to me...


This link is dead. It's only still here because, err... yknow, it's some sort of... memorial.


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1up

Joined: 25 January 2007
Posts: 153
01 June 2008 17:05 (UK time)

ehhhh i perfer to play an overpowered warrior on WoW...oh wait! yes...the game MUST BE BALANCED...kinda
lol
you cannot have anything way too hard or else its no fun anymore.
For that matter, if it was a multiplayer game every player could be specialized but each player must have balanced classes or weapons so that tactics instead of brute force is what achieves victory.
"...And with his fight money, he bought two of each animal on earth, then he herded them onto a boat, where he beat the crap out of every single one!*bangs grenades together*" -Team Fortress 2 Soldier
Headshot! Double Kill! Triple Kill! Overkill! killtacular! Killtastrophe! Killimanjaro! Killprocalypse!... Kil-Killionaire?! What happened to kill#9?!
"Oh shit, hes got THE HALO 1 PISTOL! RUUUUUUN!"
"Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet." -Red Sniper


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